(no subject)
May. 23rd, 2009 10:29 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cherryI finally saw this new-fangled Star Trek movie everyone else already appears to have watched.
I am not really a Trekie. This is somewhat unusual, as my parents, siblings, and aunts/uncles all are. I have a basic knowledge of the new series because video tapes were passed around through my extended family. Also, when I burned the first two seasons of TNG for my sister, I tried to watch a few episodes, but it didn't really take.
Now that's out of the way: I quite enjoyed this movie. I didn't have the buckets of love that most of my flist seemed to, but this might be for the aforementioned reasons. (Note -- even though this got longer and more rambling than I intended, I will reiterate that though I did enjoy the movie, I did feel it, like anything, had flaws.)
Love:
- Uhura! She is the most competent of them all.
- Spock! I'm afraid that my Sylar-hate resulted in a contact transfer of vague dislike for ZQ, but he was excellent. Hurrah!
- Spock and Uhura! While I am somewhat sketched out that an instructor appears to have been dating his student, I felt what was on-screen was handled well, and with grace. I'm intrigued by the implications of what it means to Spock, to have made the same choice his father did.
- Pretty much everyone, really. Sulu's relevant fencing FTW, Chekov was amusing, if a little one-note, and Simon Pegg was, well, Simon Pegg.
- The ships. Looked real, rough, mechanical, and futuristic.
- Cinematography. Loved the blocking, loved the colour schemes. The movie was gorgeously shot and styled.
Meh:
- Maybe it's just that I don't have any background in TOS, but Kirk... Kirk is kind of an ass. ("So, kids, sit back and let your father tell you about how he got his first command. You see, I verbally attacked someone who just watched his mother die and his planet explode. I knew he was in pain, so I thought I'd accuse him of not feeling anything..." / "Wait, we're supposed to be on Kirk's side in this one?" I asked one of my friends, when Kirk was being called out for cheating.)
- You know what, this may actually be due more to the fact that the "Rebel wonderkid comes in and saves the day with his rebel ways, teaching everyone to let loose their inner rebel" setup is really not one of my favourites.
Possibly Sketch:
- That's a large percentage of women who are pregnant and/or dead to provide motivation for men.
- They must have blown their budget on SFX, because it looks like they ran out of money for fabric for pants. And sleeves. Seriously, you can blow up Vulcan, but you can't put the women in clothes? It looks they just woke up in the morning and forgot to put their pants on.
- Does it count as passing the Bechdel test if there's simultaneously someone under the bed, perving on you as you strip?
Giant Plot Hole:
- So, there was time for Spock to go to Romulus, talk to the council, do science and build a ship, but not enough time to start evacuating the planet? They got, what, 10,000 people off of Vulcan with five minutes and one extra ship? What were the Romulans doing in the interim? "In today's news: Yes, the sun is getting bigger -- but don't worry, Spock is coming! Next: What scientists don't want you to know about the dangers of sun screen."
Miscellaneous:
- Pet peeve: Half-human hybrids. I understand that it's established in-universe, but really. We share upward of 96% of our DNA with chimpanzees. We have a (geologically) recent common ancestor. We both have iron-based blood. Despite this, you do not see people running around with half-chimpanzee babies.
- Actually, this is beyond a pet peeve. It's one of the things in media that makes me most want to smack my head against a wall. Biological species concept, people.
That appears to have grown somewhat longer and more rambling than I intended. At the end of the day, I thought it was fairly compelling, visually stunning movie with a fair number of characters I cared about, but like all things, had its flaws.
I am not really a Trekie. This is somewhat unusual, as my parents, siblings, and aunts/uncles all are. I have a basic knowledge of the new series because video tapes were passed around through my extended family. Also, when I burned the first two seasons of TNG for my sister, I tried to watch a few episodes, but it didn't really take.
Now that's out of the way: I quite enjoyed this movie. I didn't have the buckets of love that most of my flist seemed to, but this might be for the aforementioned reasons. (Note -- even though this got longer and more rambling than I intended, I will reiterate that though I did enjoy the movie, I did feel it, like anything, had flaws.)
Love:
- Uhura! She is the most competent of them all.
- Spock! I'm afraid that my Sylar-hate resulted in a contact transfer of vague dislike for ZQ, but he was excellent. Hurrah!
- Spock and Uhura! While I am somewhat sketched out that an instructor appears to have been dating his student, I felt what was on-screen was handled well, and with grace. I'm intrigued by the implications of what it means to Spock, to have made the same choice his father did.
- Pretty much everyone, really. Sulu's relevant fencing FTW, Chekov was amusing, if a little one-note, and Simon Pegg was, well, Simon Pegg.
- The ships. Looked real, rough, mechanical, and futuristic.
- Cinematography. Loved the blocking, loved the colour schemes. The movie was gorgeously shot and styled.
Meh:
- Maybe it's just that I don't have any background in TOS, but Kirk... Kirk is kind of an ass. ("So, kids, sit back and let your father tell you about how he got his first command. You see, I verbally attacked someone who just watched his mother die and his planet explode. I knew he was in pain, so I thought I'd accuse him of not feeling anything..." / "Wait, we're supposed to be on Kirk's side in this one?" I asked one of my friends, when Kirk was being called out for cheating.)
- You know what, this may actually be due more to the fact that the "Rebel wonderkid comes in and saves the day with his rebel ways, teaching everyone to let loose their inner rebel" setup is really not one of my favourites.
Possibly Sketch:
- That's a large percentage of women who are pregnant and/or dead to provide motivation for men.
- They must have blown their budget on SFX, because it looks like they ran out of money for fabric for pants. And sleeves. Seriously, you can blow up Vulcan, but you can't put the women in clothes? It looks they just woke up in the morning and forgot to put their pants on.
- Does it count as passing the Bechdel test if there's simultaneously someone under the bed, perving on you as you strip?
Giant Plot Hole:
- So, there was time for Spock to go to Romulus, talk to the council, do science and build a ship, but not enough time to start evacuating the planet? They got, what, 10,000 people off of Vulcan with five minutes and one extra ship? What were the Romulans doing in the interim? "In today's news: Yes, the sun is getting bigger -- but don't worry, Spock is coming! Next: What scientists don't want you to know about the dangers of sun screen."
Miscellaneous:
- Pet peeve: Half-human hybrids. I understand that it's established in-universe, but really. We share upward of 96% of our DNA with chimpanzees. We have a (geologically) recent common ancestor. We both have iron-based blood. Despite this, you do not see people running around with half-chimpanzee babies.
- Actually, this is beyond a pet peeve. It's one of the things in media that makes me most want to smack my head against a wall. Biological species concept, people.
That appears to have grown somewhat longer and more rambling than I intended. At the end of the day, I thought it was fairly compelling, visually stunning movie with a fair number of characters I cared about, but like all things, had its flaws.
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TKxLftwPjmwC
Date: 2011-09-01 02:57 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-23 05:16 pm (UTC)Also, Kirk didn't just randomly slam ChibiSpock's mother. SpockPrime told him that younger Spock was emotionally compromised and unfit for duty, but that Kirk had to get him to show it. So Kirk took the low blows on Spock because Spock pretty much told him to. But yes, Kirk is a bit of a JerkAss.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-23 08:44 pm (UTC)It helps, but it doesn't make it go away. :) I know that it's tweaking to deal with canon from a time where we had less genetics knowledge, and also the Rule of Cool. This is more of a general complaint from me, for various sources.
Also, Kirk didn't just randomly slam ChibiSpock's mother. SpockPrime told him that younger Spock was emotionally compromised and unfit for duty, but that Kirk had to get him to show it. So Kirk took the low blows on Spock because Spock pretty much told him to.
I think part of my objection comes from what I perceive would have been the flip side -- if Earth had just exploded, I don't think we'd have a story where the 'right' thing to do would be for Kirk to step back and let Spock save the day. I think we'd be getting the 'persevere, overcome, this is your responsibility' speech. This is of course conjecture.
That, combined with my aforementioned disaffection with rebel-saviour stories, makes me feel a little twitchy about someone becoming a ship's captain right out of the academy (where he was probably going to be at least disciplined for cheating, maybe expelled). Sure, he performed well under pressure, but I think there's a lot of learning that would be required before they hand you a ship with hundreds of people, most of whom have served for years.
But yes, Kirk is a bit of a JerkAss.
Agreed. That's acceptable to me, though, as long as it's acknowledged. Some characters (in general) are just not that nice. Apologism or white washing are what bother me, rather than a character who is times a jerkass.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 06:08 pm (UTC)See, the flip side, though, is that Earth is not a culture where your emotions are frowned upon. And Vulcan is a culture where they are. If Earth had just exploded, the *ahem* logical flipside would've been the entire crew would've been trying to persevere, overcome, and get past the grief and probable desire for revenge that went as deep as every human and part human on the ship.
Spock would have less emotional attachment to earth than Vulcan since he grew up there, and would likely have had to smack Jim upside the head and tell him to get ahold of himself. And then he and Bones (because Bones would probably have had to sedate everybody on the ship who couldn't pull it together so they could either sleep it off or do their jobs) would have to stand beside Jim and keep his KHAAAAAAAAAANNNNN rage from making him act more rashly than he does when he's not upset.
I don't think he would've been expelled for cheating. Because his rationale even in Star Trek TOS 1.0 had been he didn't believe in the no-win scenario. And he wasn't expelled there for it. Plus, this was his third time taking the KM, and "nobody goes back for seconds, let alone thirds". Kirk just wanted to win and drive the point home to Starfleet that the test didn't take his personal worldview into account.
Pike had already told Jim he could have a ship of his own in 4 years. Kirk told Pike he'd do it in 3. So I'd say it's possible, but not likely. Like Doogie Howser becoming a doctor at 16 -- it's doable but almost unheard-of rare.
Kirk actually hadn't done it yet, even excelling with his genius IQ at Starfleet academy. It was only that Pike made him First Officer and Spock actually accepting that his emotions were impairing him and stepping down that advanced Kirk so that he could do all the awesome shit -- including rescuing Pike -- that got him promoted. And then the awesome shit got him officially promoted.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 01:18 am (UTC)Really! That's interesting -- is this from one of the books? I always just assumed he was the product of a normal conception, since it's not like Star Trek has always been very conscious of the notions of 'real science' (warp speed? TIME TRAVEL? *g*). But if he's the product of scientific tinkering, that would have fundamentally shaped how other Vulcans (and humans) viewed him -- not the way they might view someone of mixed-race, but as someone who is inherently kind of a freak or an aberration.
No wonder he has Issues.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 06:15 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 01:22 am (UTC)That said, Kirk has always been a bit of a dickhead. I feel that this movie magnified his dickheadish aspects, though-- which does make sense, in a way, due to various factors of the reboot (no father, uncertain home life, etc). Because this reboot!version has plausible characterisation considering these factors, I can take some of his shit. But if he doesn't start mellowing and maturing by the next movie, I'm going to have some words.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 03:42 am (UTC)The entire thing with SpockPrime, in retrospect, is slightly confusing. Rather than 'I don't know if new!me can handle a ship right now,' it came across more as 'You're not the captain? Oh, that's not right. Go get rid of new!me.' SpockPrime knew that this Kirk was a fundamentally different man, shaped by different life experiences, but he treated him as the Kirk he knew.
Because this reboot!version has plausible characterisation considering these factors, I can take some of his shit.
Like I said above, I can take characters who are dicks. Heck, they can be my favourite characters, but at the end of the day it needs to be balance. I think it's there, but a lot of it felt tacked on. We knew it was there, so the audience was supposed to apply it to his general behaviour. I think if there'd been a little bit of vulnerability to him, it would have changed my impression.
Of course, now I want Kirk watching Spock and Uhura, being a bit of a dick to them, and thinking he's just bitter he didn't get her name, and that he and Spock aren't as good of friends as SpockPrime told him they'd be. The self realization that they make his pants (and his heart) feel funny would be a bitch.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 04:13 am (UTC)Although I've only watched the movie once (and then with a fair bit of fast-forwarding through the bits I was impatient with -- e.g. the entire belaboured beginning), is it possible that Spock Prime didn't realise the extent to which Nero's presence had altered the time line prior to Spock Prime's own arrival? Spock Prime got captured pretty promptly and exiled to that ice planet to watch Vulcan get destroyed. -- But on the other hand, he did somehow know that Kirk's dad had been killed on board the Kelvin, because when Kirk asked him whether he'd had a father in Spock Prime's timeline, Spock Prime didn't seem surprised about the question. HMM.
Though regardless of how much Spock Prime knows about the changes in the timeline, he does know that he's operating in a different reality. So it's foolish (illogical!) of him to make the following progression as though it were watertight: (a) I feel sad because Vulcan is gone, (b) therefore new!me must also feel sad because Vulcan is gone, which mean that (c) new!me is incapable of captaining a ship and making rational decisions, and also (d) I should return events to as close as possible as the way I remember them, which is the way they should be.
ZQ Spock is a different person! He might resemble Spock Prime, but he (clearly) does NOT THINK THE SAME WAY. But Spock Prime was weirdly paternalist and machinating. "I know best!"
PS. TOTALLY on board with Kirk watching. Point me to the fic! Alternatively, pls write fic!
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 04:39 am (UTC)Also, question, do neither of these planet have colonies?
Re: ZQ -- he was pretty awesome, was he not? It totally rinsed the residual Sylar taste from my mouth.
Re: PS: I have not actually dipped my toe into the fandom, as it is large and scary, but from my flist, it looks like it's splitting between S/U and K/S.
Oh, goodness, I want to write it, and yet it terrifies me.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 04:57 am (UTC)Yes! I was worried about being weirded out by the Sylar factor, but the only moment I really remembered was when Spock attacked Kirk on the bridge. I was like, omg, that's a total Sylar expression! -- and then I was like, Kirk deserves it, go for it *g*.
WRITE WRITE WRITE. The world needs more K/S/U and S/U with a side of K. K/S in this universe I could theoretically get behind, but I've been a bit afraid to read too widely yet.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 06:19 pm (UTC)And I am on board the Uhura/Spock train.
And believe me, it is Uhura/Spock in that order, because she wears the pants, so to speak, in that relationship.
(Which might, now that I think of it, be why the haters are calling her a Sue. Only she could get Spock to show emotion and fall in love. Only she could command him to change her assignment and get him to actually do it. I disagree these are sueish traits, though.)
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-25 09:16 pm (UTC)I mean, yes, it's possible the Horta and her baby would've been safely returned to each other. But perhaps not.
It's possible Somebody else would've pissed off Khan Noonian Singh, but would they have pissed him off as badly as Jim Kirk did?
Who could've gone back for a nuclear
wesselvessel and saved the whales for the space people in the 24th century?And that's just the first three examples that came to mind.
(no subject)
Date: 2009-05-24 03:43 am (UTC)